361 Flame 5 Review
By Matthew Klein
361 Flame 5Price: $169 at 361
Weight: 7.7 oz, 220 g (men's size 8), Measured Weight 8.9 oz, 252 g (men's size 10)
Stack Height: 39 mm heel / 33 mm forefoot
Drop: 6 mm
Shoe Purpose: Stable Workout / Race Shoe
Pros: Stable, snappy/fast ride, highly durable
Cons: Heavy for a super racing shoe, heel counter too hard
RUNNING SHOE SUMMARY
The 361 Flame 5 is a stable neutral racer/workout shoe for those who want a faster, stable shoe for a variety of faster efforts. While a bit on the heavier side for a racer, the snappy plate and responsive, firmer foam make for a fast ride that excels over 10k to marathon paces. A unique upper with lower volume but wider forefoot is paired with a secure thin mesh that locks the foot in well. High sidewalls, a wider sole, fantastic geometry and a plate that comes up around the foot make for a highly stable ride that is borderline mild stability. A harsh heel counter and heel padding may be troublesome for some, but the Flame 5 returns as the most stable racing shoe on the market currently.
SIMILAR SHOES: Saucony Endorphin Pro 4
PAST MODEL: 361 Flame 4
FIT
(To learn how a shoe should fit, check out our full podcast on fit by Matt Klein.)
Matt: The 361 Flame 5 fits me true to size in my normal men's US size 10. The upper is a thin synthetic mesh that does not stretch. The volume is low over the toes which adds a secure feeling. The toebox is slightly rounded and the forefoot is wider for a racing shoe. This continues into a normal-width midfoot. The tongue is not gusseted but the laces attach to extensions that wrap the midfoot. The tongue has not slid and tightening the laces tightens around the foot and not just on top of it. The tongue is thin but has a small bit of padding down the center. I have not had lace bite with the shoe. The midfoot volume is slightly lower but heightens to a normal instep. The heel fits slightly snug with no major heel collar padding but a small bit of padding that wraps only at the top of the heel. The rest of the heel is flexible except for a thin but extremely stiff and unpadded heel counter. I found the heel quite irritating as the small padding of padding pushed into my Achilles tendon and my heel got flared up after almost every run due to the harsh heel counter. Those with heel or Achilles sensitivities will be fine but if you are sensitive in either of those areas, this shoe may not work for you. This upper requires socks for protection but is quite secure particularly due to the midfoot. It is best to go in a straight line with this shoe as quick turns do cause sliding. So it works best for non-technical, road courses.
Typical Size: Men's US Size 10
Shoes that have fit Matt well: On Cloudboom Strike, Hoka Gaviota 6, Xero HFS, Topo Cyclone 3, Saucony Azura, Salomon Aero Glide 3
Shoes that have fit snug: Hoka Arahi 7, Brooks Launch 11, Diadora Mythos Vigore 3
Shoes that have fit large: Salomon S/Lab Phantasm 2, Adidas Agravic Speed Ultra
Doctors of Running Checklist
Is This a Good Shoe for Walking: No
Is This a Good Shoe for Standing: No
Is the Forefoot Flexible: Not Flexible
How Flexible is the Shoe: Not Flexible
Is This a Good Heel Bevel: Yes
Recommended for Haglunds: No
Is This Shoe Orthotic Friendly: Not really
Recommended for Sockless: No
Durability Expectation: High
PERFORMANCE
Matt: The 361 Flame 5 is a super racer / workout shoe for those that want a superfoam/plate combo. The midsole is CQTFLAME, which is a beaded, bouncy, cushioned but slightly firmer foam. The material is has a large amount of bounce to it and responds better the faster you go. The weight is on the heavier side for a super shoe, coming in 8.9 oz (252 g) for my men's size 10. It doesn't feel that heavy, but is definitely not in the light echelon or racers. The stack height is tall and has a 6 mm heel drop. The drop does feel a bit lower, but not super low. The heel cushioning is bouncy but slightly firmer. There is a large posterolateral bevel that transitions extremely smooth. This continues into a firmer, stiffer and snappier forefoot. The forefoot rocker has an average length, but the plate has a noticeable curve that makes it stiff and snappy going off the front. There is no flexibility at any point along this shoe due to the stiff carbon plate. This feels fine at slower paces but is best at fast paces.
I have used this shoe for tempo runs, faster intervals and an uptempo long run. The long run felt fine (other than the heel counter) but the tempo and faster intervals is where this shoe felt best. The snappiness and responsiveness of the foam make the shoe feel lighter than its listed weight and I had no trouble running faster speeds down to 5:20 miles. For those looking for a stable neutral racing shoe, this will be an excellent option that can do 5k efforts but will be best for 10k to marathon distances given the slightly higher weight.
Durability-wise, this shoe is amazing. I have 40 miles on my pair and the outsole looks brand new. I have not made a dent in these and the midsole has remained exactly the same. For those reasons, I expect this to be one of the most durable shoes out there (we'll test that). The outsole traction is great even on wet road. I would not use this shoe on trail as rocks will get stuck in the outsole grooves. So as long as you are on smooth surfaces, this shoe will be great.
STABILITY
(Learn more about stability in our full guide)
Matt: The 361 Flame 5 is a true stable neutral racing shoe. It is borderline a mild stability shoe given the wider outsole, large outsole groove, large amount medial sole flare in the heel and forefoot, the large sidewalls and the aggressive plate that rises up on the medial and lateral sides. The posterolateral heel bevel guides the heel laterally at heel strike and the sidewalls/plate keep the foot centered. There is noticeable medial pressure from the sidewall and medial lip of the plate that almost feels like a medial post. This provides noticeable guidance and my posterior tibialis has not been sore at all after any run in these shoes. The midfoot also feels quite stable thanks to a higher lip from the plate and continued sidewalls. The forefoot is stable due to how stiff the plate is and the extra medial sole flare. There is also lateral sole flare at the forefoot, which contributes to a highly centered ride. This is the most stable racing shoe on the market right now, so those with mild stability needs and/or guidance needs throughout the length of the foot will do well in the 361 Flame 5.
Thoughts as a DPT: What Makes a Non-Stability Shoe Stable?
By Matthew Klein
I was extremely excited during my first run in the 361 Flame 5 because I could immediately feel that it was stable. While there have been major improvements in stability trainers over the last year, most racing shoes have gotten more neutral. They are getting faster but are also less stable. The 361 Flame is the only series that got far more stable. Stability comes from many different areas. It is often vaguely described by other review sights, which I never trust since most of them do not have stability needs. Those who need stability shoes based on research are those who have a history of pronation-related injuries (posterior tibialis problems, medial tibial stress syndrome, Achilles tendon problems, etc) (Malisoux et al., 2016). Most are those who need some help support the medial or lateral side of their foot because they may have extra or difficult control frontal plane (side to side) motion. Stability mechanisms usually add stiffness that resists side-to-side motions.
While we often use stability and guidance interchangeably, the general population will describe the shoe through how stable it is. Things that contribute to this are torsional stiffness, or the resistance of the shoe to being twisted, sidewalls (trimlines) of midsole material that cradle the foot, shoe width and rocker geometries. Plates add torsional stiffness and resist foot motion side to side.
The Flame has additional torsional stiffness from the plate having wings that extend up around the foot. A wider sole provides more material to the side of the foot that resists motion, which is why wider soled shoes feel more stable. Sidewalls (or trimelines) are midsole material that come up and around the foot. These allow the foot to sit deeper in the shoe with material around the side resisting motion. The geometry of a shoe can add to this as it can facilitate motion forward rather than sideways. Finally, the upper can make a shoe stable based on how well it locks the foot down.
Each shoe may have one or more of these, which can be interpreted differently by different people depending on how they respond to each of these components. The more of them there are, the more likely people are to rate the shoe as stable. These are the components we look for in non-stability shoes to figure out if they might be stable, although getting them on our feet and testing them is the best way to find that out.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Matt: The 361 Flame 5 is a great update, but there are some disappointing things. The first and most significant is the heel component of the upper. Most of the upper is great and locks the foot down well. The heel padding design seems like it was ripped from the recent Vaporfly and combined with the unpadded heel counter has given me significant pain. The counter sits right up against the heel bone and the only padding digs right into the Achilles tendon. This, by itself, has prevented me from enjoying this shoe as much as I could. I would opt for the heel padding to be vertical instead of horizontal to actually pad the heel and not impinge on the Achilles tendon. The second thing I would like to see is the weight drop. There is a 361 Flame 5 Future, which is lighter than this shoe. I may have to try that as this is a workout/racer combination. I think lightening the upper (like getting rid of the counter) may be helpful, but not if it means sacrificing the stability that works so well and makes this shoe so unique.
WHO IS THIS SHOE FOR?
Matt: The 361 Flame 5 is a workout/racing shoe for those with stability needs. It is one of the few stable neutral racers on the market and has the durability to handle tons of training too. The fit will work best for those who are not sensitive to stiff counters and who have normal width but lower volume forefeet. The midsole will work best for those who want a rockered sole with a stiffer forefoot, a slightly lower drop and a firmer but bouncier ride. This will be a great workout/racing option for those with mild medial stability/guidance needs in the heel, midfoot and slightly in the forefoot. It excels best at faster paces, especially 10k to half marathon paces. I just wish I got along better with the heel counter, but for those who can handle that, this may be the stable super racing shoe many have been looking for.
GRADES
Matt
Fit: B- (Lighter upper with slightly wider but lower volume forefoot. Stiff heel counter with horizontal padding that pushes into the Achilles tendon)
Performance: A- (Snappy, fast shoe that feels best at uptempo to fast paces. A great workout and 10k to marathon racing shoe)
Stability: A [Stable Neutral] (Highly stable ride, especially in the medial heel and midfoot thanks to extensions of the plate, large sidewalls, a wider sole, a deep guidance line and a fantastic rolling geometry)
Value: A (An insanely durable racing shoe like this for $169 is a fantastic deal. Similar price and way faster than most of the plated trainers out there)
Personal: B (I love the midsole and stable design but the heel counter and heel padding cause me a pain during and after runs. If that is fixed, this will be an incredible stable neutral racer. Hopefully it works better for others)
Overall Design: B+
SHOP | SUPPORT DOR361 Flame 5Price: $169 at 361
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FURTHER READING
Their long distance racer.
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