361 Flame 4 Review
By Matthew Klein
361 Flame 4Price: $169 at 361
Weight: 8.2 oz, 232 g (men's size 9 / women's size 10.5)
Stack Height: 36 mm heel / 30 mm forefoot
Drop: 6 mm
Shoe Purpose: Super Workout/Performance/Racing Shoe
Pros: Durable, Trainer/Racer Versatility, Stable, Wider Fitting
Cons: Soft Heel Makes Shoe Feel Lower Drop, Firmer than other Super Shoes, Heel Collar Padding Pushes on the Achilles Tendon Insertion
RUNNING SHOE SUMMARY
The 361 Flame 4 is a carbon-plated, superfoam training, workout and racing shoe for longer distances. A somewhat softer Qu!kFlameCQT midsole provides a moderately bouncy ride with a full length carbon plate that wraps around the foot for additional structure. A wide midsole with a large central cutout provides surprisingly stable and centered ride, especially combined with the plate. A durable outsole that can handle road and even light trail sits on the bottom. A light and somewhat breathable upper sits up top, with a midfoot strap and a flexible heel counter for surprising comfort. While not the fastest super shoe, it is one of the more durable, versatile and affordable options on the market.
SIMILAR SHOES: Saucony Endorphin Speed 5
PAST MODEL: 361 Flame 3
FIT
(To learn how a shoe should fit, check out our full podcast on fit by Matt Klein.)
Matt: The 361 Flame fits me true to size in my normal men's US size 10. Initially, it felt slightly long but as the upper widened, this has gone away. The overall fit is normal in width with a stretchy upper in the forefoot for more volume. The heel and midfoot fit normal to slightly snug thanks to the plastic upper at the rear. The forefoot fits normal to slightly snug and the slightly long fit offsets the mild taper. The taper is more present laterally, with a surprising amount of room for the big toe. There is a stiffer toe guard in this shoe, which can be a little harsh without decent thickness socks. The midfoot volume is lower, partially thanks to a lower instep, as well as the midfoot MORPHIT lacing system. The tongue is thin, free floating and does have to laid down prior to tightening the laces. The MORPHIT lacing system is additional stretchy mesh that wraps the medial and lateral sides of the midfoot and connects to the laces. Tightening the laces easily tightens and locks the foot in. I did not have to tie the laces that tight to get a secure fit and I would also caution against tightening them too tight as I did experience a little lace bite over the top of my foot. The heel features heel collar padding only in the rear and a highly flexible and rounded heel counter. I did not notice the counter at all, yet it still holds the heel well. Those with Haglund deformities should do well in this shoe.
The heel collar padding does protrude quite a bit, so those with insertional Achilles tendinopathy that is irritated may not due well do to that pressure. The inner aspect of the upper is quite scratchy against bare skin, so socks are highly recommended with this shoe. Once the laces are tightened, the shoe is fairly secure. I did have some sliding while turning, but to be fair that was on trail. So for road use, the upper has a good hold on the midfoot while the slightly snug fit holds the rest of the shoe.
Typical Size: Men's US Size 10
Shoes that have fit Matt well: On Cloudboom Strike, Asics Gel-Nimbus 27, Xero HFS, Topo Cyclone 3, Adidas Adizero Evo SL
Shoes that have fit snug: Hoka Arahi 7, Brooks Launch 11, Diadora Mythos Vigore 3
Shoes that have fit large: Salomon S/Lab Phantasm 2, Adidas Agravic Speed Ultra
Doctors of Running Checklist
Is This a Good Shoe for Walking: No
Is This a Good Shoe for Standing: No
Is the Forefoot Flexible: No
How Flexible is the Shoe: Not Flexible
Is This a Good Heel Bevel: Yes
Recommended for Haglunds: Yes
Is This Shoe Orthotic Friendly: No
Recommended for Sockless: No
Durability Expectation: Above Average
PERFORMANCE
Matt: The 361 Flame 4 is a super racer/workout shoe. It features a bouncy midsole material with a full length carbon fiber plate. The ride certainly feels super, but it isn't so aggressive that it can handle some training as well. It is lighter at 8.2 ounces for a men's size 9, but that is on the heavier end for super racers. Qu!kFlameCQT midsole has a good amount of bounce, but feels like a slightly softer version of the PWRRUN PB found in the Endorphin Speed 4. It feels great while training and running faster, although is not the absolute fastest shoe. There is a 6mm drop that feels lower due to the softer heel than forefoot. There is a large excellent posterolateral heel bevel that makes heel transitions smooth. The midfoot transition is quick and moves into a large forefoot rocker. At first, the forefoot was quite stiff but broke in. This provides a firmer, stable but snappy ride off the front The plate is certainly noticeable in the forefoot and contributes to the forefoot feeling firmer than the softer rearfoot. Those with toe mobility issues may do well in this shoe given the total lack of flexibility, but will need to be cautious with the slight toe spring.
Purpose-wise, once the Flame 4 breaks in it does well for uptempo training runs and workouts. It will work as a racing shoe given the super foam, plate and relatively lighter weight. For me, it has done best for long runs, tempo runs and workouts pushing 10k pace. For me, it doesn't transition quick enough for 5k and paces below. The moderately bouncy rearfoot and stiffer/stable forefoot make it feel better over longer distances. It is certainly snappy, but doesn't respond as quick as other super shoes. This makes it tolerable for easy runs and great over long run distances (also due to how stable it feels. More on that later). It feels best at marathon and uptempo paces, hence the long run component for me.
The outsole traction is solid and seems to grip well on most surfaces. The durability is amazing as I have taken this shoe on road, gravel and trails during a recent trip and it did fine. While the exposed plate is scratched up a little, there is no wear on the outsole after 30 long and hard miles in this shoe. This is NOT a trail shoe by any means but can handle more varied terrain than any other road super shoe. So I expect this shoe to last a long time. These components make the Flame 4 unique as a more versatile trainer/racer that can handle a pounding.
STABILITY
(Learn more about stability in our full guide)
Matt: The 361 Flame 4 is a stable neutral racing shoe. While there are no traditional methods of stability, there are several methods of guidance in this shoe. While there are only small sidewalls (aka toplines), the sole is wider (especially in the forefoot), there is a large central guidance groove, the stiff plate wraps around up around the foot, there is.a large amount of medial heel and forefoot flare and the heel bevel guides the foot slightly laterally. The plate is the first thing that adds to this and offsets the somewhat narrow midfoot. It wraps up and around the foot both medially and laterally, most visibly in the midfoot and forefoot. This adds additional structure and stiffness that resists torsional motion. The central guidance groove is noticeable and seems to help facilitate a centered transition through the shoe. The medial sole flare in the heel and forefoot is also noticeable, providing resistance to medial motion. This is most noticeable at the forefoot, which also features mild lateral flare for a stiffer and stable forefoot transition.
The final piece is the lateral heel bevel. This guides the heel in with some lateral bias that feels great for me but may not be as good for those with lateral sensitivities. The true test of this has come over some 12-14 miles runs that I would normally not be able to take a shoe this long in, especially on gravel. Yet, my ankles were fine and felt great after this and harder efforts, suggesting that while not a stability shoe, it does make the list as one of the few stable super shoes, especially in the heel and forefoot.
Thoughts as a DPT: Achilles Tendinopathy in the Running Population and Heel Collar Padding
By Matthew Klein
Achilles tendinopathy (AT) is one of the most common running injuries. It is defined as chronic degeneration/irritation of the Achilles tendon. Tendons are complex structures that function to both help transfer forces between muscles and bone, are actually the structures that elongate and shorter during faster motions like running (yes, the muscles contract mostly isometrically and don't change length that much apparently) and are slow to heal/adapt (Lai et al,. 2018). You do not have to have pain to have this as 46% of runners demonstrate abnormal ultrasound imaging consistent with AT without symptoms (Lieberthal et al., 2019). This is why most people think when they have a painful tendon that it just started when in actuality, the pathology has been going on for a while. There are two primary places this occurs, with about 63% occur at the midportion of the tendon and 27% occurring at the insertion.
I have done videos on the biomechanics and treatment of this pathology and some things I found from my PhD dissertation that can be found here. Treatment can vary depending on the location of symptoms, but the key is appropriate loading (often heavy, low rep, calf raises), reducing risk factors (alcohol, poor sleep/diet, etc) when the tissue has calmed down. This is treatable, but my warning is that you HAVE to consistently load the tendon for AT LEAST 9 months to help the tendon remodel. If you stop before that, you'll get some pain and symptom relief but you have a high risk of occurrence. Tendons take a long time to remodel and heal.
From a shoe perspective, there are a few things to watch out for. Shoes that are lower drop or become lower drop when loaded dynamically, can be more stressful to the Achilles tendon. Rocker geometry can offset this, but sometimes too low will still require high amounts of ankle dorsiflexion, which really stretches the tendon. This is not bad long term, but can be irritating when the tendon is symptomatic. The other thing to be careful with is heel design. Stiff heel counters can certainly press on the heel bone (calcaneus) and Achilles insertion. However, when tends to be more irritating is when there are small pieces of rounded padding that sits just above where the heel bone is and pushes right into the tendon. Sometimes a thick pair of socks can protect this, other times the extra pressure can be irritating. So for those with insertional (where the Achilles meets the bone) AT, those high heel collar pads may be something to avoid if you are having symptoms. It may be better to look for shoes with more uniform padding throughout the heel so there isn't uneven pressure in one area.
Chen, W., Cloosterman, K. L., Bierma-Zeinstra, S. M., van Middelkoop, M., & de Vos, R. J. (2024). Epidemiology of insertional and midportion Achilles tendinopathy in runners: A prospective cohort study. Journal of sport and health science, 13(2), 256-263.
Lai, A. K., Lichtwark, G. A., Schache, A. G., & Pandy, M. G. (2018). Differences in in vivo muscle fascicle and tendinous tissue behavior between the ankle plantarflexors during running. Scandinavian journal of medicine & science in sports, 28(7), 1828-1836.
Lieberthal, K., Paterson, K. L., Cook, J., Kiss, Z., Girdwood, M., & Bradshaw, E. J. (2019). Prevalence and factors associated with asymptomatic Achilles tendon pathology in male distance runners. Physical Therapy in Sport, 39, 64-68.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Matt: After a disappointing first version, version four of the Flame has impressed me at its price and for being one of the few stable super shoe options. It isn't the fastest shoe and I don't think it is meant to be alongside the Furious 2.0 and the incoming Furious Future 2.0. It does provide a great training/racing ride the rivals other series like the Saucony Endorphin Speed. However, there a still a few things I would like to see changed.
The first and most significant is the rear heel collar padding. It is right at the height of the Achilles tendon insertion and pushes directly on that area. I would love to see this moved and padding added more uniformly around the heel, rather than a bunch in one spot. The other major suggestion I have is to slightly widen both the midfoot and the central groove. This will add even more guidance to the midfoot, which could make this shoe the most stable super shoe out there. Right now, the narrowed midfoot is offset by the plate and lateral groove, but it could be even better.
WHO IS THIS SHOE FOR?
Matt: The 361 Flame 4 is for someone who wants a more affordable and versatile carbon plated, super foam trainer racer. The midsole foam Qu!kFlameCQT is moderately bouncy, making it a great option for those wanting a shoe for long distance running, workouts and races. The upper fits slightly snug, making it best for those who want a secure midfoot and have a normal to narrower foot (but still some forefoot volume).
The Flame 4 is one of the rare stable super shoes, particularly for those with forefoot or heel guidance needs thanks to the plate, sole flare and central guidance groove. It functions more as a faster training/workout option that can certainly handle faster efforts but tops out at half marathon to 10k pace. The durability and versatility for only $169 (cheaper with the codes and sales that occasionally pop up for 361's website), easily rivaling other similar shoes and super trainers in this category. This version is so much better than the original, which felt like a stiff brick.
While not the fastest shoe on the market, it is unique as a more stable and durable option in this category. It is still the budget option to shoes like the Furious and Furious Future series, but definitely holds its own. This also is a great true super shoe option for those just getting into super shoes who want something lighter than most super trainers but are not wanting the aggressive >$250 option. What's cool is this shoe is not that far enough and like the 361 Miro, has again caused 361 to catch my attention.
GRADES
Matt
Fit: B+ (Slightly snug fit with secure midfoot. Heel collar padding puts pressure on Achilles but comfortable outside of that)
Performance: B+ (Versatile ride that can handle long runs to workouts to longer races for others. Durable outsole that can a variety of terrain, although traction may still be best for road. Not the fastest shoe but has good versatility)
Stability: A- [Stable Neutral] (Posterolateral heel bevel, medial heel/forefoot flare, carbon plate that wraps up around the foot and a wider sole all make for a stable neutral ride, especially at the heel and forefoot. Slightly narrowed midfoot is offset by these other things)
Value: A- ($169 for a durable and versatile super shoe is a great price and a much better option especially for beginners and those looking for one shoe)
Personal: B+ (I love the stable neutral ride and bouncy heel, but the forefoot is a bit too firm for me and the heel collar
padding digs into my Achilles tendons. Definitely not something I would use for racing but a great option for uptempo daily training and workouts. I might even consider this for faster long runs if I didn't have other super shoes to test).
Overall Design: B+
SHOP | SUPPORT DOR361 Flame 4Price: $169 at 361
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